Learn Korean Online (with Rob) on Facebook
Teaching both English and Korean here for six years (well, Korean for only 3), there are definitely some things that need to change.
Now granted, this will be written from the perspective of a person with a fairly run of the mill North American (Canadian) accent – basically, I’m not from either coast, super south or super north.
On the issue of the system making it easier for foreigners to speak Korean more like a native, there are a few things that need to change…
1a) Writing Korean words phonetically in English, there is often no distinction between the ‘long u’ sound as in ‘blue’ or in Korean, 중, and the ‘short u’ sound as in ‘hung’ or in Korean, 정. Often, the Korean examples I just gave are both spelt ‘Jung’ when romanized. Well, as a native English person reading that, I definitely read that as the ‘short u’ sound, sounding like ‘정’ – so if I couldn’t speak or read Korean I would easily make a mistake with the pronunciation of that.
My suggestion: Add something new. For the ‘long u’ sound, write the same ‘u’, but put a dot over top so that we know it’s ‘long’. It would work for the letter ‘o’ as well. Cause how do you differentiate between 동 or 당 (under the current romanization – see part 1b for my suggestion on that). So just put a small dot over the long ‘o’. Or just use ‘oo.’ That works okay, too. In my opinion.
1b) There’s also a huge problem, if the aim is to get foreigners pronouncing Korean words like the native sound, with the romanization of ‘ㅏ’. It is always romanized as ‘a’, for example ‘당’ is written ‘Dang.’ Ha! I always got a good kick out of my Floridian friend when he, and his slight southern drawl (sp??), would say that, knowing that it should sound like ‘dong,’ not, ‘dang.’ Ah, good memories.
My suggestion: the ‘ㅏ’ should be written as an ‘o’. The hugely common family name, 박, should become Pok, or Bok. Way closer to the original sound than the absolute bastardization, ‘Park’ (if the aim is to get foreigners saying Korean words closer to how they’re supposed to sound, that one got fouled straight back). Then the long ‘o’ be written as an ‘o’ with a dot over top.
2) Going the other way this time. The combination ‘~aw’ is horribly translated into Korean. Every time I say words like ‘saw’ or ‘law’ in class, when my students finally figure out what I’m saying, they say “Ohhhh, 쏘우 (for ‘saw’), or “…로우 for law. It’s crazy. For a country that spends as much on learning English as you do, you might want to consider helping your kids out and actually helping their pronunciation rather than completely ruining it.
3) Back to the romanization of Korean names. Lee! I’ve yet to meet a person in Korea with the last name ‘Lee’, but that’s how they all write it, including my wife. I’ve been saying this for years, and this is the first time it’s hitting a public forum, but change the spelling of the hugely common family name, ‘이’, to ‘Ee’. The only rule I know of governing what a word must or must not have, is that it must contain at least one vowel. We even stretch that out to include ‘y’ on occasion. And if ‘Ng’ can get away with having NO vowels in China, then ‘Ee’ having two, must surely be acceptable. And that’s all I’m going to say on that…for now.
Well, that’s been my rant. Korean scholars, if you’d like to call me up and ask some more, well, I don’t have a phone right now, but you can reply to this if you’d like. I know I’d like.
Cheers all,
Rob…
P.S. This rant was in response to the article written in the Korean Times at this link.
I thought the Korean romanization system is already revised, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Romanization_of_Korean
I’m really getting confused.
Yeah, I don’t really know either. I got an “alert” which was an article in maybe the Korean Herald and it was talking about the fact that they were “thinking” about it, and that’s when I wrote that little blurb. Then an alert I got either the next day or the day after was referring to the fact that it was done. So I don’t know. All I know is, I hope they did a decent job of it, ’cause there’s definitely some stuff that needed changing.
…but I would say go with the ‘wiki’ article.
Yeah, it helped me a lot. But learning Hangeul would be much easier than relying on pure romanizations only, right?
I can’t stress enough how much easier Korean would be to learn if you learned how to read and write. There are only 24 characters initially that you need to learn. It just ends up building in some cases so differently from English, that you need to almost break away totally from the way we think in English, almost create two compartments and stop translating directly (the next video I post will be way above your head, but it will have a good example of how you can’t tranlsate directly) – and learning how to read Korean (in Korean) will really help.
I don’t have it organized yet, but if you haven’t learned how to read in a few weeks, I should have a (totally free) package put together which is exactly for someone in your situation.
Hello Rob,
This is my first post here, so let me say one thing, simply and quickly: your videos are very helpful! Thank you!
About the revision of the Romanization of Korean letters: I completely agree. Now that I’ve picked up a good deal of Hangeul, I must say that the Romanization was nearly useless. It’s only in scenarios where they compare the sound of a well-known English word to the Hangeul sound that I had the easiest time.
I tried using the IPA for Korean a few days ago to help me out, and (of course) it had all sorts of strange symbols to represent sounds. Unless you’re a schooled linguist, there’s no way you would use that to learn a language.
Oh, yes. I disagree with one of your suggestions: I’ve always thought that “ㅏ” sounded like “ah” (as the ‘a’ from the word father) or ‘ah’ in the popular sound “ah-ha!”. Please, tell me if this sound is wrong.
-Galinaros
Hey Galinaros,
Yeah, it totally does, but when it gets written as an ‘a’, in most words that leads people to say the short ‘a’ sound as in ‘cat’ or ‘ham’. Words like father and that are kind of exceptions to the rule (as a N.American would say them). Does that make sense? So for example, the Han River. If I was to read that not knowing it was ‘한’, I would say ‘han’, rhyming with ‘man’. Where as Hon would read more accurately. I don’t know. That’s just what I think anyways.
Hey Rob,
I could follow you in your message until you gave the example between ‘han’ and ‘man’. I would just like to clarify…
Here’s my question: When I pronounced ‘한’ I said it as a Jamaican would say “mon”. (I hope that example works, haha). You said that with the Romanization, people (ignorant of the true Korean spelling) would say it as ‘man” instead of something more along the lines of the correct “Hon”.
I hope that’s what you meant, ’cause if it is… I’m with you all the way.
-Galinaros
Haha, yeah, we’re definitely on the same page. Nice.
Rob…
Except your pronunciation proposals don’t work for those of us with non-US/Candian accents
Romanisation for Korean is always going to be a compromise between making the correct sound and preserving the meaning. Hangeul itself has this issue (and they’ve opted generally for the latter). I think that’s why they keep flip-flopping on romanisation systems.
Yeah, I know. I’m fully aware that what I wrote was from a Canadian/N.American point of view. But I still think a few of them would apply to more than just US/Canadian accents.
And it’s true, there’ll never be a perfect system, the languages and their sounds are just different in a lot of cases. I’m not quite sure what you mean about preserving the meaning though, in regards to the way the words are spelled in English.
hi i want to learn korean
Hey Jeremiah, that’s wicked. I’d say the first thing you should do is stick your name and email into the box up on the right which will take you to the page with the free videos teaching how to read and write. If you can’t yet read and write, that’s definitely the first step you should take.
But, if you can already read and write, I still recommend you sign up for those videos, ’cause on the same page as the videos, at the bottom, there’ll be another video explaining how you can get the 3 classes (about 3 more hours) of the online class for free as well. And once you get those, you’ll be taken to a page that’ll have all sorts of info about the online class, including a link to register if you feel so inclined.
Hope that helps,
Cheers!